Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 Hello and welcome to Women is Born Free, free podcast. This podcast is based on the belief that women is born physically, emotionally, mentally, and spiritually free. So I'm joined by a very special guest today, Amy Hopper. Um, I'll saying to Amy, I don't usually do this, but I'm gonna read out her LinkedIn by, which I think tells you a little bit about what an incredible person she is. So she's the girl who founded a digital agency at 25, got hit by a car at 26, lost half her hair, shaved her head, grew her agency to a top 30 UK Google partner, had a spinal fusion, was wheelchair bound, sold her agency, rebuilt her body heights, 600 Kme kilometers solo around Europe. Took the took to the Beacon Circuit, founded a mental health consultancy group, became a sport fitness model, and now consults in wellbeing, marketing and performance. Amy, it sounds like you've had a life
Speaker 1 00:00:59 <laugh>. No one's ever read that back to me before. I mean, obviously I wrote it, but, uh, yeah, that was, that was cool. Thanks, <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:01:06 It's, it's, I feel like it's sort of, it to me. I read that and it sounds almost like it's sort of, um, I dunno, almost 10 lifetimes sort of rolled into one.
Speaker 1 00:01:15 Yeah, I mean, I, I have some days it does feel like that for sure. Um, it's one of those things that people, I've been writing it and thinking, gosh, like, did this, did this actually happen? Sometimes it feels a bit like a dream, but, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's certainly been character building for sure. That's what I would call it.
Speaker 0 00:01:35 <laugh>. And I mentioned there, so you were obviously running your own business at 25, which even that in itself is sort of, you know, quite the fee. I know when, for me, I think at 25 at that stage of the career, you know, up until then, it's just getting up at work, <laugh> and things like that on time seems half, half the struggle, um, let alone sort of running your own business. So you had that, which is ob obviously an amazing feat. Um, and then you got hit by a car, uh, at 26, which is awful, I think, to go through at all. And, you know, especially running your own business. I mean, how did you feel at the time of that happening and how did you feel sort of after that?
Speaker 1 00:02:17 Gosh, I mean, yeah, I think it was, I suppose it's, that's like the really, really deep question to to, to get straight into. But at, at the time, I mean, starting my business was sort of a almost like, I, I felt I, I had to like, I hadn't spent too long in, in corporate, but what I had done was gone straight in 21 years old doing these 60, 70 hour weeks as many of us done, like wanting to prove yourself and just ended up with, with burnout and ended up having a break. And it became very clear to me early on, I thought, you know what? I, I can't do this. I I can't do this for the rest of my life. Um, and there's a, there's a much bigger story as to why I ended up founding AM marketing. But I remember at the, the time of the crash thinking like, it's only been a year and this, this can't, this can't be it.
Speaker 1 00:03:14 Like this can't, I can't be 26 years old and this this be the end. Like I just simply won't, won't allow it. And I was put in a very, very humbling position of, and I'm really, really glad that I have felt this. Cause I feel it's completely changed my perspective on life, but being there lying on the ground, genuinely thinking like, this is it. Mm. Like, I'm done. I'm 26 years old now and I'm done. I'm not gonna come back from this. I couldn't, I couldn't feel my legs. I could see this big wreckage of a, of a car that was next to me. Like my car engine was next to me. There were helicopters in the air, the sirens, there were people running around all over the place. I was just being poked and prodded by doctors and, um, fire brigade were cutting a car with the big, you know, the thess things that, and I just, it was just there almost having this outer body experience and your whole life does flash before your eyes. And I was there thinking, you know, I you, you don't think at that point, oh, I'm really glad I got that report in last week, <laugh>. Mm
Speaker 1 00:04:23 I'm glad I spent those, those extra couple of hours after work. I'm glad I got whatever raise you. Think about your friends who think about your family. You think about the time that you spent with them and, and that's it. That's, that's what you think about. And that's, so that's what I was experiencing at the literal time. And then everything after that, I just thought, you know what, I, I have to live my life with this new perspective. Now I have to move forward thinking, okay, this, I'm going, I have to do my own thing and I can't work on anyone else's terms. And so when it comes to the point where it is my time to go, I know that I've lived a full life investing in the things that were important, not in the sort of frivolous, um, superficial elements that we all seem to chase.
Speaker 0 00:05:09 Mm. It's, it's so interesting you say that because when you started, you know, initially talking about your early career, like 21, you are work, you are overworking, you know, working these sixties out week and you said to prove yourself. Yeah. And then you had this like horrific, you know, life-changing experience happen and then you're sort of, you are like, this isn't gonna be the end. But for that moment, you know, there was a moment where you thought, my god, this could be the end. So you've had this complete change of perspective.
Speaker 1 00:05:34 Presenteeism actually costs businesses twice as much as absenteeism. If you have this culture where people feel that they can't be, they can't be honest about not coming in, whether it, whether they need a mental health day, whether it is, um, due to tho those who menstruate, um, and need to take a day off it, it's, yeah. It should be seen as your wellness is, is imp more important.
Speaker 0 00:06:00 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I didn't know it was like that cost companies as much. Um, but yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense if someone's not able to do the work, but they don't want to get told off. I know that sounds funny cuz we're talking about adult workplaces. Yeah. <laugh> get told off. Um, so they're coming in anyway. It's like, yeah, they're there. But it's almost Yeah, that does make sense. Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:06:25 Cause I'm trying to get, um, with Tiera, I suppose an element of it is trying to see like, well, wellness as a, as actually a cost saving exercise. Like you, you invest team as a cost saving exercise. You can have less turnover rate, less recruitment fees, less time spent, training new people because you've had, I means you can recruit the best talent because they want to work there. Um, if you haven't got tired people working on clients and potentially making mistakes because you've made them overwork or given them, given them too much work and generally ha happy people are, I think there was a, a study done at Oxford Business School, happy people are 13% more productive just as a, just as a base standard. So
Speaker 0 00:07:07 Yeah, it makes sense. Like having more energy. And I was gonna ask because you are, you know, we talked about you getting hit by a car and sort of having that situation where, you know, you were like really like, am I gonna make this? And then also at once they sort of being wheelchair bound and, um, having the spinal fusion. I mean, how did you heal from that? And you know, that can be physical and all kind of other kinds of healing as well.
Speaker 1 00:07:37 Um, oh gosh. Stubbornness, <laugh>, <laugh>. Uh, I think for me that like, that it was definitely, it is all about mindset. So I don't want, I don't wanna give this perception to anyone listening that it was, you know, that I'm like some sort of superwoman that doesn't have bad days. Like there are a lot of bad days. Mm-hmm. And there still are, there are days I don't, I don't get out of bed. There are days I just think, you know what I cannot do today. There are days where it is my goal for the day is to have a shower and to make a couple of phone calls. That's, that's just sort of set that as, as, as a base. But, um, but for me, I, I had read every single self-help guide in the library. I had sort of tried og Yeah. Uh, you, I had tried Yoga ashrams, I had, um, done every supplement I had, meditated and done affirmations and basically tried absolutely everything and, and realized that when people came to me and said me, oh, how do you get through it?
Speaker 1 00:08:39 And there's sort of this, this British, oh well, you know, you just put, put one foot in front of the other. But I realized that that wasn't actually true and I inadvertently created a system and it was a system that worked for me personally, but also worked within the context of business. And so being able to still achieve your goals through challenges and then that's the system that then, then went into t o a and that's thet o a system. And those are, that's what then went on to create all the workshops and what we implement in, in companies today. So it was very much at about having a structure, a really, really set structure and focusing on what I could do, what not on what I couldn't do that that was key. Like not focusing on, oh, well I, I can't walk and I can't do this and I can't do that. Like, okay, I can't walk and I want to hike again. I can't hike at the moment, but what can I do? Okay, well I can use my wheelchair and I can, I can perhaps walk to the end of my parents' drive and back.
Speaker 0 00:09:40 Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:09:41 And then maybe tomorrow I'll be able to walk to that, that lamppost and back. And then maybe in a couple months time I'll be able to walk a little bit around the shopping center and then use my wheelchair afterwards and when it gets too tough. And then just by, just by doing okay, what can I do today? Not what can't I do today? It was a huge mindset. Mind was a huge mindset shift. Um, and practicing a hell of a lot of patience and a hell of a lot of kindness to myself.
Speaker 0 00:10:09 And when you were kind of doing them, I guess almost incremental, you know, getting to lampposts and things like that, in terms of like what was motivating you and stuff like that? Was it the big picture kind of vision? Or was it it was the big picture vision?
Speaker 1 00:10:22 Yeah, absolutely. I, I've always been, um, I'm a strategic story so it's, it's, I've always been big picture anyway. Mm. Like it's just, but it was very much a and also I'd say at the time is that we were in lockdown, so I had my spinal fusion and then a couple months later we all went into the world, went into lockdown. So I had no physio or, or or physical therapy after a couple of weeks I had to do it all myself. So for me it was actually, it was easier to be still and it was easier to focus on myself and the healing because the world had stopped.
Speaker 0 00:10:58 Mm.
Speaker 1 00:10:59 I think, I think if the world was still going on around me, I'd find it harder cause it would almost feel like I've got the fear of missing out or I, I need to rush. Whereas cuz everything had stopped. Um, it was, I did, I did find that, um, a help I suppose in, in the healing element. Um, and cuz I was not rushing myself to get anywhere cause we couldn't go anywhere <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:11:22 Mm. Funny you say that actually. Yeah. Because I guess if it's literally just yourself or you know, we're in lockdown, it almost makes it easy to go at your own pace because you're not aware <laugh>, you've got no one else's paces sort of around you.
Speaker 1 00:11:39 Exactly. Exactly. Um, but for me it was, it was again that the same, remember thinking the same thing I did when I had the, the big, the big car accident is that this isn't, I cannot, this cannot be the end of me and had that spinal fusion at 31 and just thinking this, it has to work, so it's going to work and that's it. Mm. And and of course I had those days where I thought, oh my God, it hasn't worked and the pain's back and, but um, yeah, a hell of a lot of, of perseverance and, and mental, just mental pushing in those days.
Speaker 0 00:12:12 And, and I was gonna ask like what does, because you mentioned like the stiff English kind of like, oh, you know, just get on with it and you know, even I won't go into it too much. We'll be seeing that generational divide at the moment of, you know, older generations sort of, you know, like that's still that thing of like getting on with it. And then the more like younger generations are like, you know, we need to feel our feelings and things like that. There's <laugh> the snowflake and baby boomer kind of attack a beaver side. Um, but you, you know, you kinda mentioned that it wasn't just put in one foot in front of the other and kind of like, you know, keep calm and carry on. I mean, what does resilience sort of mean to you? Like what would you say your, your definition of resilience is?
Speaker 1 00:12:57 That's a really good question. So I have this, um, I have this story that I teach at the beginning of every single tier, a workshop. And it is the, and it is the story of the, the, the buffalo and the cow. Mm. And I can't remember who originally where I originally saw it, but it, it's essentially that you have these big planes in America and, um, they have huge, huge storms. And there's two animals that graze. There's a buffalo and the cow. And there are, when the storm comes, the cow sees the storm and thinks, oh gosh, it's a storm. And then it starts to run
Speaker 0 00:13:31 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:13:32 And run away. And of course cows aren't very fast animals. <laugh> traditionally
Speaker 0 00:13:37 <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:13:37 So the, the storm catches up and the cow gets rained on, the cow keeps on running, it's getting rained on, it reaches the hot storm and it, and it gets very, very wet. The buffalo is very different cuz the, the buffalo sees the storm and it runs towards it.
Speaker 0 00:13:52 Mm.
Speaker 1 00:13:53 And yes, the buffalo will reach the storm quicker, it'll be rained on quicker, it'll reach the heart of the storm quicker, but while the cow is still running, still being rained on, the buffalo's reached the other side and it started to graze in the sun again. So for me, this idea of resilience, um, has been somehow quite sort of, for me, quite toxically warped as a, the definition of resilience. It used to be very much push it down, suppress it, don't talk about it, don't think about it, carry on. Which, you know, it's, it's going to come out somewhere Yeah. At some point. But it's going to come back to you tenfold. For me, the idea of resilience is, goes hand in hand with almost the idea of surrender. That I have this feeling, I have this emotion, I need to tackle this head on. I need to feel this and I need to process this so that I can, instead of being rained on, I can be on the other side grazing as quickly as possible. And that, that mantra and that idea is, is definitely for me, um, what's, what's got me through a lot of, a lot of things. I also think it requires much less energy.
Speaker 0 00:15:09 Mm.
Speaker 1 00:15:10 It requires much, almost like you actually require less resilience if you, if you just tackle the emotion head on, you just feel it and you, and you allow your body to process it because you, it requires so much energy to ignore, to suppress, to, to keep, keep trauma and keep those emotions stored in your body and go, go every day with it in the back of your mind.
Speaker 0 00:15:35 Reminds me, there was that kid's book when I was younger. It was like, we're going on a bear hunt and there were all these like obstacles and they're like, we can't go around it, we can't go over it, we have to go through it. And it was Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:15:45 Exactly. <laugh>, that's brilliant. I love that. That's great. It's great.
Speaker 0 00:15:50 I don't remember reading it when I was like five or six and now I look back and I'm like, whoever wrote this book knew They really, yeah. They knew something about life
Speaker 1 00:15:57 Before their time, before their time <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:16:00 Yeah. I
Speaker 1 00:16:01 Think you also made really, you raised a really good point there about this sort of like snowflake versus Gen Z bashing heads. And I think that we have been used to be doing, we've been used to doing business a certain way and working a certain way and that has been, you start young and you do your time and you cut your teeth and you do your 60, 70 hour weeks and you burn yourself up out and you, and and that's just the way it was. I mean like this idea of that well that's just how it's
Speaker 0 00:16:32 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I think I did it and other people need to do it too. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:16:36 I do. Exactly. I think there's, that's the issue is that you, the, you always get that with the older generations perhaps they're almost like a, well I did it so you, you should have, and that's with with many businesses actually rely on people overworking and, and knowing that they're gonna do extra hours out of their contract and they and the business rely on that to, to succeed. I have many, many friends in finance who still, still in their mid thirties doing 16 hour days.
Speaker 0 00:17:06 Wow.
Speaker 1 00:17:07 I mean, they get the paycheck that goes along with it. But if you think about being able to invest in hobbies or dating or family life, just, just, it's just not, it's just not there. So, um, when Gen Z are coming up and saying, oh, any of the younger generations coming up and saying, you know, we are not, this is not okay, there's obviously gonna be that backlash which will, will come
Speaker 0 00:17:32 Across like, you're a spoiled brat, we did it. Why don't you do it sort of thing. Exactly.
Speaker 1 00:17:36 It comes across as a personal attack because suddenly all these companies are realizing we actually have to change the fundamental way we run our business in order to attract the best talent from these younger generations. Which is hard. Obviously people don't like change. It will be for the best, but there's going to be some, some, um, some yeah. <laugh> bumping of heads there I think.
Speaker 0 00:17:59 Yeah, definitely. It's interesting, I was thinking about this today actually almost links in with the, it's almost that environmental issue as well, moving more, you know, from, it's all about the end result. Like, I'm gonna work my ass off for, for however many years, um, and burn myself out, but at the end of it I can retire and I'll have money and whatever else it is. Like, have this thing. Um, yeah. But it's almost like with sustainability, it's almost like, you know, especially we think environmental, it's not okay to be like, oh I need to, I dunno, cut down this tree cuz I'm gonna get this at the end. Because now we're kind of having to think more about the process itself. And it's interesting how that's kind of like in the workplace as well.
Speaker 1 00:18:39 Mm. Yeah. I think it was, well because, you know, it used, it used to be that you people had the same job Mm. And the same jobs all of their life and the job is kind of what defined you as a person. Whereas now we're entering into a time where how you define yourself, uh, is, is so much more than than your job role. Mm. And your career. So the importance and, and, and we're also where, where a lot of the jobs that people will have don't even exist while they're at school. Yeah. Don't even exist university. And most people will end up with sort of maybe five or six different careers throughout their lifetime now rather than just the one. Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, the importance of one's career is much less. Um, and I'm, I'm glad we're in, we're in a nice, it's a, it is a very interesting change, but that's part of what I do is, is help companies navigate that. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 0 00:19:38 And I know, you know, you mentioned a bit there, yoga, I feel like yoga, I feel like yoga's socially acceptable now. Like very socially acceptable <laugh>, you know, enable. So as I've explored as well, like more kind of spiritual things, um, what am I doing at the moment? I've been going to Kundalini in Sydney, which has been very good. Nice.
Speaker 1 00:19:57 Yeah's
Speaker 0 00:19:57 Been energy healing. Um, but yeah, it, it's interesting, there's more, so more people I know are definitely getting into these sort of alternative healings and spirituality and things like that in some, like when I used to be more in insurance, um, and even maybe advertising media I'd say as well, actually a little bit of, maybe it's a bit taboo where you might not mention, you know, maybe people, some people do mention it or some people don't. And it's still a little bit of like a, I remember going on a spiritual retreat and I just told everyone it was a yoga retreat cause I was just <laugh> embarrassed about it. Um, but how, I mean, how do you kind of like integrate the two or do you know, do you kind of find that you integrate the two, the sort of like corporate world and then this more esoteric sort of spiritual, spiritual stuff as well?
Speaker 1 00:20:48 That's a, that's a really, really good question. So I tend not to put any pressure on saying to people, oh, we're gonna integrate yoga or we're going to integrate spirituality or, so for me, what the, one of the key, key things that I do within any company or team or individual when I'm working with them is like, we work out what makes them happy. Ok. And we work out what, what we work out what lifts them. So, because what lifts someone may drain someone else and everyone's different. So I mean, for example, we're taking yoga as an example here, but I've worked with people where the idea of doing yoga would, would just, it just doesn't lift them whatsoever. It would actually drain them and it would actually make them feel bad. It would actually have an impact, a negative impact.
Speaker 0 00:21:32 Oh wow. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:21:34 So for me it's not about saying specific, oh well we're gonna bring a yoga instructor in and everyone's gonna do yoga cuz that's, that's not gonna work. It's, it's about thinking, okay, well what makes you, what lifts you individually and how are we gonna integrate that? And for some people that may be more something spiritual that maybe cata, meditation, yoga, um, whatever they, they, they find gives them that, that boost. For other people, it could be something as simple as going for a walk, um, doing some cooking, playing guitar, spending time with their, with their pets. And that's their own, that's their own sense of, of grounding. Mm. So what, so what I do is not try not to place, um, my, my idea of what helps me onto anyone else or project that out, but help them find their own way.
Speaker 0 00:22:30 That's really smart. Um, I remember years ago dating someone and I was, I remember I was like, I, let's talk about feelings. I want to talk about feelings. And I just saw this look of pain on this man's face and I realized, I was like, oh my God. Like for some people talking about feelings and psychology and all this stuff is as painful as it is for me to like, talk about trains or like, I don't know, numbers or things like that where I just like, you know, like my whole brain's like, oh, I don't wanna talk about, you know, I hate stuff like that. Like mechanical and buildings and stuff. It's just not for me in at all. But I was like, oh, for some people talking about psychology and feelings, <laugh> and spirituality is just painful.
Speaker 1 00:23:11 Exactly. I think one of the, the big examples that I see all the time and completely splits a room when I'm doing a workshop is cooking like half the room.
Speaker 0 00:23:20 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:23:21 Half the room. Cooking lifts and cooking is something that they love doing and they do to, to, to con even like normally bigger picture. Like, oh, I want to make something, I wanna create something out of all of these elements. And for other people, cooking is a chore and eating is a chore and they're not too big on food and they, and for them it's just something that they have to do every, every day. So Yeah. So then, so then say for, say for example, if that company were to say, oh, we're gonna do an online cooking course together as, as part of the world, that just wouldn't work. <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:23:52 Yeah. Yeah. I'm definitely, yeah. I, I I always find it strange when people say they cook to relax or they have people round for dinner to cook, to relax. And for me that's terrifying. Absolutely. The most stressful thing. Um,
Speaker 1 00:24:07 So I think, um, integrating spirituality into workplaces, I think very much if, if the, if the C-suite team owners ceo, if they're very, um, sort of spiritual people, you tend to find that they, they hire
Speaker 0 00:24:24 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:24:24 People that are on safe way the same wavelength. And that's when it, it's much easier if you're going to do that. But yeah, for me it's very much more of a unique individual thing and I work more with people with what makes them happy on a individual basis rather than, um, yeah, projecting of my own, any of my own views onto it.
Speaker 0 00:24:43 I think that's very good advice. I'll stop gifting crystals to people. I think <laugh> just, just put some <crosstalk>. If you're
Speaker 1 00:24:51 Gonna, if you're gonna gift a crystal to someone, like that's, that's a, that's a, you know what I'm thinking of you and clearly gift giving is one of your love languages. And I, I have, and I have thought of you while I have bought this and, and here you go. And that's something to be treasured regardless of whether they subscribe to, to that, um, idea or not.
Speaker 0 00:25:13 Yeah, that's very true. That's very true. Communicate in it. And yeah. You mentioned a little bit before about surrender and you know, like the, the buffalo and the cow example of like, I'm gonna surrender to this, I guess, I don't know, terrain and environment and obviously like, you know, adaptability and stuff is sort of the key to our survival <laugh> as a species. That's very big picture there, but it's, um, surrender's a funny one because it's, you know, if we, if we take covid for example, and that experience, I think surrender, you know, it's hard. Like how do you kind of balance surrender and productivity? Because I guess you can see, you know, if we take Covid for example, um, you had some businesses they really, I can't, there was an example, I can't remember it off the top of my head now, but some businesses really like just don't di uh, diversified and were like, okay, we are gonna do this X, Y, Z and even on the individual level, it's sort of like, you know, do I just like accept this situation and just do nothing? Or do I talk, you know, you have to fight against this and kind of like find a way to achieve my goal even though there's this mass, you know, epidemic or pandemic even. So how do you kinda like balance that productivity or surrender?
Speaker 1 00:26:34 Right. That's a really good question. And I'd like to pick up on something you said about I'm I'm, I'm, I'm gonna do nothing. Yes. And I think there's idea that, that surrender equals do nothing. <laugh>, <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:26:46 White, white flag lie down. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:26:49 Almost, almost like you've got like, either I'm gonna fight or give up and like those are the two and there's nothing in the middle.
Speaker 0 00:26:56 Yeah, that's true. Yeah. It's
Speaker 1 00:26:59 A more gentle than that <laugh>. So for me it's, for me it's um, surrender does not equal giving up. Surrender for me is, it's, it's purely about realizing and accepting that, um, we have very little control over, over what happens to us in life. It's not like the, the universe is here making things happen to us because we've been selected to, for it to be nasty to in some way everyone gets given their own, their own battles and their own challenges. So it's the acceptance of, okay, well I'm going to come across challenges in my life that's just, and change challenges and change. Those are things I need to accept. Uh, but it's also saying in in those situations, I'm not going to force any perceived idea or positive negative on the outcome. Right. Okay. So I'm not, I'm not going say, if this doesn't happen, it's going to be awful.
Speaker 1 00:27:56 This has to be, this is, this has to be how it comes out. This is the outcome and this is my definition of success. Mm-hmm. And was much more of a, okay, well this is, this is this has happened. What can I do in this situation? What, what, what can I do? How, how can I move forward? What can I learn from this? This thing has come my way. Perhaps it's a challenge. Perhaps it's great. I'm either, I'm either going to succeed, grow, or learn. Mm. Properly, properly everything. Yeah. But there is, and it's the idea of saying, okay, well there's no surrender for me is like saying there's no failure. Yeah. There's, there's any growth, there's any learning or, or, or su or a success in some way. And it comes from the i the fact of, there was a point in during covid in which I had lost everything.
Speaker 1 00:28:49 Mm. Everything I had lost my, my health, my body. I had, we were in a midst of a global pandemic. My, my business had had reduced significantly. And then, um, four months after my spinal infusion, I, I lost my, um, husband and business partner to suicide. So that then like we were, um, started a chain reaction in which I almost lost my house. So I can remember being in this position where I like got, okay, my home, my body, my, my partner, like I've, it's, it is all gone after eight years of running this company and a decade in my career of working and striving like, just like that within the space of a couple of months.
Speaker 1 00:29:41 So being in that position of just, okay, like rock, rock, rock bottom, complete rock bottom, never, never been lower. And a few months later, actually having a, I remember, I can remember when I had it and I was stood in my parents' garden and it was a beautiful warm day. There were loads of bees around, there were so many flowers blooming. And I decided to plant some vegetables, which I then saw growing over the next few months after that. And I suddenly became happy. Like, I was happy to see these vegetables growing cuz I, I was contributing and I felt like I was making something and realizing that, that I, I had surrendered, well, I can't, I can't change anything. All of these things have happened. So what can I do? And at the moment I can get up, I can eat, I can have a shower and I can go and water some lettuce.
Speaker 1 00:30:46 And, and it just took me back to beautifully grounding simplicity and which I was then able to build very, very strong foundation on which I was then able to create a structure on which I was then able to move forward and, and grow my life again. So, so now anything that comes, I just think, okay, well we've gotta be the buffalo. We gotta, we gotta get, we've gotta process this, we've gotta get through this challenge. Um, it is, it is what it is and it has, this has to be done. I can, or I cannot choose to do this. I always have a choice. It, this would be a great outcome. I'm gonna try and manifest this, or this is my affirmation for, for this. But I've also been in times where I've, I've created an affirmation of how I will, perhaps I would like a situation to how I would like a bigger picture or success to look like. And actually by trying not to control it and surrendering to the outcome that it's actually turned out better than I ever could have imagined.
Speaker 0 00:31:52 Mm. That's incredible. And I, I guess when you said, you know, not sure how things turn out, it's almost, I'm sure at that time you were thinking, oh, I need to grow this huge amount of money or this business again, or this house, or whatever it was. And it's, it's so interesting that actually, you know, the learning or that moment of surrender was in that you were just growing vegetables, which probably were never like a huge goal of, you know, wanting to grow vegetables, but then that was actually, you know, that realization, like that little step.
Speaker 1 00:32:23 Yeah, absolutely. And is, there's this beautiful, beautiful quote that I found by St. Francis of Assisi where it says, start by doing what is necessary. Mm. Then do what is possible. Suddenly you're doing the impossible. And it really is that idea of like, that tiny, tiny step every day is a marathon over time because Yeah, because it, it really is, um, yeah, if you, I think so much of the anxiety that we feel in life and the pressure we feel on lives is the pressure that we put on ourselves to, to achieve a certain thing or to be a certain way or to to have a certain success. And most of it is defined by other people's definitions or other people's expectations on us, or, or how we feel people, other people are judging us. Yeah. Whereas just there, and I'm just thought, okay, well I'm just here concentrating on myself and growing some vegetables and that's it. And suddenly realizing, okay, okay, this, this, but on a, on a larger
Speaker 0 00:33:28 Scale, it's interesting because I think we can think that, um, you know, it is always starting again if you're like, I had this and then I lost it, or that changed and it's starting again. Like, I've had so many careers in my life and you think, oh, it's, you are indecisive or it's starting again. But actually, if you look at it, it's like a, you keep the lessons and b there are like incremental changes because often you're not gonna, you know, if you are like wanting the dream job or whatever you are probably not gonna go from something you hate to your doing job <laugh> it maybell, who knows? I don't dunno. But often it's like actually incremental, figuring out what you want and learning to not listen to what other people want for you. And this whole like process, rather than being like, I know I want to do this. And waking up and just doing it.
Speaker 1 00:34:15 Yeah, exactly. And when people, when you're talking about life lessons, we don't actually learn through age. We learn by going through challenges. Mm. So you may think that like the, the older you get, the wiser you get. No, no, no. It's just that as you grow older, you've gone through more challenges and come up the other side. And that's why, that's why you're wiser. It's nothing to do with it. If you sat if you sat in a room and did nothing for a year, you'd be older, but you wouldn't be wiser at all.
Speaker 0 00:34:39 That's very true.
Speaker 1 00:34:41 So, so you know me who collects trauma like Pokemon, that's why I'm so wiser
Speaker 0 00:34:49 Wise. You're like, I wanna kill like something else now. Please.
Speaker 1 00:34:53 I'm resisting. Oh, you're so wise for your years. And I'm like, it's trauma
Speaker 2 00:34:58 <laugh>.
Speaker 0 00:35:00 Yeah. It's when you feel stronger and you're like, ah, I don't wanna learn any more lessons. Please.
Speaker 2 00:35:04 Yeah. It's like, like want lessons? My character is built. Thank you. Thank you very much, <laugh>. And they,
Speaker 1 00:35:12 That brings me like, when people say the phrase, um, oh, what, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Which is just such an awful phrase.
Speaker 0 00:35:20 I know, I know. It's,
Speaker 1 00:35:21 It's just so bad. Like, it, it just, one, it implies that if you've gone through something, you have to learn something from it, which sometimes you don't. Sometimes there is just pain rub, rubish,
Speaker 0 00:35:32 Rubish. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:35:33 Yeah. Sometimes things are just rubbish. You could, it can be rubbish, you can feel it, it's rubbish and that's perfectly fine. You don't, you don't have to learn anything from it. And also it implies this idea of, of almost like the, the trauma was the reason or the challenge was the reason that you are now the way you are. Almost like it gives, it gives it takes away your power. Yeah. Like that was the reason that you've now been made this, this person that you are. And actually no, it was just a catalyst to show you what was already inside you that was already available to you. Um, sorry, that's my little rant about that first.
Speaker 0 00:36:10 No, that's, that's very true. That's very true. And that's all we've got time for. I was just gonna ask you finally a question you'd like to ask. When do you feel most free?
Speaker 1 00:36:20 When I am hiking.
Speaker 0 00:36:22 Oh, I love that. Love hiking. Yeah. When I'm
Speaker 1 00:36:24 Hiking. And um, actually there was a time when I had very, very severe pt s d even to the point of having physical PTs d symptoms. Um, I knew it was almost calling to me. I knew I had to get back to the lake district. It's wow. It's just, oh, it's just this gorgeous place in the UK and I dunno if you've ever been, and I just love it. Oh God. It's just, it and it's, it's how it was thanks to the efforts of Beatriz Potter. It, it's, it's a, and by the National Trust pretty much. And it's, it's unadulterated unbuilt on and how it was sort of thousands of years ago. So I went there, um, and within a week I no longer had the physical symptoms anymore just because of spending that pure amount of time and just pure nature with clean air. And, um, yeah, there's, there's nothing more, um, wonderful I feel than just being amongst any sort of nature or mountain or, or water. That, that to me is just absolutely wonderful. But's a friend of mine, she said, I'm not going hiking with you. I hate it. So there we go. <laugh>
Speaker 0 00:37:33 Sides
Speaker 1 00:37:34 Of the coin.
Speaker 0 00:37:36 Always Awareness. Awareness. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 00:37:38 Always awareness. Always awareness. I'm like that. That's fine. That's fine. We can just go out
Speaker 0 00:37:42 <laugh> and, and just finally, where can people find you?
Speaker 1 00:37:46 So people can connect with me on LinkedIn, um, at Amy Hopper or Toe group, do co.uk. I'd be very happy to message and, uh, answer any questions anyone has.
Speaker 0 00:37:59 Well, thank, thank you so much, Amy. It's been lovely having you on and hearing quite the story, but, uh, yeah, like very, very inspiring and also very realistic as well. I
Speaker 1 00:38:14 Welcome. It's been a.
